Posted By Evgeny Morozov Share

The Blogging Gods have finally discovered a contentious issue that has relevance beyond the funky offices of the always-happy Sillicon Valley start-ups: Holocaust denial. As is to be expected, all the stupid things said and done by the likes of David Irving never registered on the radars of most Web enthusiasts until Facebook got involved.

But now there is finally a hot-enough subject to merit a loud debate about issues that are rarely (if ever) addressed in the mainstream tech news media  (by this logic, we simply need to ensure that Google and Facebook take controversial positions on ALL important global issues of the day -- that should solve the problem of making geeks care about what is happening in the world that exists outside their computer station).

So, how has Facebook sinned? They have refuse to delete ALL groups that deny the Holocaust. Instead of banning all of them outright, they are actually exercising judgement. For some tech pundits, this has proved too much liberalism to swallow (could it be that most geeks are not wild libertarians at heart, after all?). Michael Arrington over at TechCrunch has emerged as one of the loudest critics of Facebook's current policy (along with Brian Cuban).

Here's a question to my readers: Who do you think is more guilty of belittling the Holocaust and not drawing any lessons from this tragedy?

Answer 1: Facebook execs who refuse to censor all groups denying the Holocaust.

Answer 2: Michael Arrington who thinks that Facebook deliberations are the new Wannsee Conference (here's a quote from his post to get you situated: "Holocaust denial is a seed. A seed that will grow into a fully bloomed second Holocaust if ever allowed to germinate. And Facebook is providing the fertile ground and watering needed to do just that.")

Call me old-fashioned, but I go for Answer 2. In my book, calls to limit free speech of any kind sound MUCH more like "providing the fertile ground and watering" for another Holocaust than posting pointless little messages on Facebook. Somebody please tell Arrington that there are some fundamental differences between planning and executing mass murder and organizing a "Pink Panty campaign"; I am not sure that seeking similarities between those two would seem any less belittline and offensive than some of the stuff posted on Facebook.

The border between stating one's views (no matter how stupid, outrageous and illiberal they might be) and encouraging others to act on these views is a very blurry one. Yet, we should try, not just shut up and abandon all efforts.

Facebook's reasonable riposte to its critics has been that they monitor the Holocaust denial groups and take action against those that promote hate or violence, allowing harmless ones to continue operating. For once, I think they are right and this is only way to protect free speech AND take measures to thwart any mobilization efforts that may be based on what has been posted to the site. Any other universal approach will inevitably result in over-censorship -- and that's one step too many towards authoritarianism.

Arrington also says that there is something wrong about Facebook's decision to ban photos of breastfeeding mothers that adhere to certain criteria while doing nothing about groups denying the Holocaust. For once, I agree with him -- there is, indeed, something strange about it -- but the way to correct this is not to ban even more free speech, but to relax the existing restrictions by allowing photos of breastfeeding.

What's worse, it's quite sad that the same pundits who love bashing American tech companies for bowing down to excessive censorship demands of authoritarian governments also insist that there is no point in having these very companies voluntarily adhere to the principles inscribed in the first amendment while operating in the U.S. (Another quote from Arrington: "The first amendment doesn’t apply to private companies. So why is Facebook so willing to take a stand when it comes to hungry babies, but won’t do a damn thing when it comes to the Holocaust?"). I thought that connection was very easy to make but let's spell it out: If this moral obligation doesn't exist for them in the U.S., it is even more arguable that it exists when they operate in China. Do we really want to enter this debate again?

Being a good corporate citizen doesn't mean doing only what's required from you by law -- that's what all companies are supposed to be doing anyway; it actually requires going beyond the boilerplate and actually helping to promote a set of common humanistic values, of which freedom of speech is certainly one. Perhaps, our Blogging Gods simply need a crash course in Western civilization.

P.S.: Micah Sifry has written a smart response to Arrington here.

 
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JOHN112211

3:38 PM ET

May 14, 2009

Holocaust Denial=Hatred

You simply need a crash course in Facebook TOS - they have rules against hatred. Holocaust denial=hatred. This is not a free speech issue. There are double standards on Facebook when it comes to free speech. Facebook has censored academic discussions which were critical of Islam and of Facebook. You're obviously not someone who has done much on Facebook - they have stricter rules against spam and porn than they do against hatred and violence. The only thing that ever got them to remove violent terrorist groups actually promoting Islamic terrorism was negative press. You're also missing the fact that it was not Arrington or Cuban who started all of this - it was the Jewish Internet Defense Force (JIDF).

 

DAVE123

5:09 PM ET

May 14, 2009

As someone who is unabashedly

As someone who is unabashedly pro-Israel, I am completely against restricting this type of speech. One of the main reasons for having a first ammendment is so that such speech is out in the open and can be confronted with truth instead of festering underground.

 

CURTHOPKINS

6:09 PM ET

May 14, 2009

Bafflement

My Muslim friends tell me that Facebook shuts down most Holocaust denying sites but none of the anti-Muslim hate sites. One of the commenters above tells us they shut down anti-Muslim hate sites but not anti-Semitic ones. So I contacted one of Facebook's PR people, Jaime Schopflin, and asked him to provide me with figures regarding their TOS shutdowns. He forwarded my request to Barry Schnidt, who deals with policy issues like this at Facebook. I will let you know what I find out.

I hate the he said-she said who-hates-us-more competition, but it won't go away so I am hoping to at least get some clarity on the reality of it, though I'm not sure that will solve anything. Regardless, all the discussion of this has made me revisit the issue. I'm not sure what conclusion I'll come to, but I try to err on the site of free speech, obviously. The lack of consistency on Facebook's part has always been distressing. This is just the latest.

 

BCUBAN

11:46 PM ET

May 14, 2009

Holocaust Denial Groups On Facebook

It has never been my intention to minimize the "idea" of free speech in the Facebook realm regardless of the actual application of the 1st amendment. I value the concept of the free and open exchange with every bone in my body. I also understand that FB is attempting to shape its policies to mirror 1st amendment ideals to encourage "free speech" this is commendable.

There however is a fundamental difference in how Mr. Zuckerberg and I view this idea. To overuse a cliche, while we have free speech in this country, not all speech is in fact free. Certainly not hate speech. I think Mr.Zuckerberg would agree with this. FB has many times removed groups whose discussions and rhetoric propagate hate and violence against various types of groups.

This is where the break occurs. Mr. Zuckerberg and many others look at HD and see a revisionist theory that even though vile does not in itself constitute
hate speech.

I look at HD and see two words that were created solely to propogate hate and violence against Jews. The words themselves represent the "idea of hate" To me that fits the definition of a hate group.

Even FB's Chief Privacy Officer Chris Kelley stated: "HD is motivated by hate" I have yet seen to see a statement from either him or Mr. Zuckerberg on this matter. Where is the transparency here? If they agree that HD is motivated by hate,who do they think the deniers hate? The logical answer is Jews. I doubt Mr. Kelly was referring to their hate of Dairy Queen Ice Cream. The two words themselves stand for nothing more than pure unadulterated antisemitism. This is okay simply because the title speaks of HD or no one puts in a comment "we hate jews"? This is form over substance at its worst.

That type of speech is not free. It has consequences. It should not be tolerated in any forum.

The "idea" of free speech is not the abrogation of social conscience and corporate sensitivity to the victims of unspeakable human tragedy.

Sincerley

Brian Cuban

 

KENNETH SORENSEN

6:30 AM ET

May 15, 2009

I think Evgeny Morozov is a quite sensible guy

Of corse one could have wished that he spelled holocaust with a small -h-, as indeed there were many. All in all several scores of innocent lost their lives in WW2, not just Jews, but 20 million Russians, 6 million Poles and many Belorussians as well. I have allways been interested in how many of the Jews in the 6 million figure also figures in the Russian, Polish and Belorussians casualties list.

Of course the fate of the Jews was extra tragic because they were such a small community from the outset. It is allways a perillous situation to be a minority under a dictatorship, and being disliked by that dictatorship. when you furthermore have no country or army, it is bound to mean trouble -- and there is very little the outside world can do about it.

But I welcome all individual research into what went on, like David Irving -- one of the leading experts in the world in the nature of the Nazi-regime and its leading figures - has done. He doesn't deny that many Jews got killed, but he set the number to 2,7 million. There is also the case with a plate commemorating Jews killed at Auswitch, which once said 4 million , but was later lowered to 1 million. Then of course people wonder: What happened to the 3 million that supposedly was included in the 6 million figure? The mats would suggest 6 minus 3 = 3 million.

It is questions like this that puzzles many, and we need open discussions about all matters relating to this incident. But as you are aware, it is a very political laden subject, and the 6 million figure have had an influence when Israel was set up, and served as a form of 'excuse' or at least 'moral understanding' when Israel in 1948 performed its own ethnic cleansing of 800.000 Palestinians. And in many instances involving the Jewish states crimes towards the indigineous population, this 6 million figure stiil lurks in the background and provides some sort of moral understanding.

That is why it so important to get to the bottom of this, and that is why so many pundits with affiliations to the Israel Lobby opposes it. But people ask: "What are they afraid of. Why will they not allow individual research, and why not welcome all research in this field, as we do in any other field?"
____________________________

When talking about holocaust and Jews in the same sentence, it is obvious to focus on the socalled 'holodamor' when 5 million (christian) Ukrainians lost their lives in the 1930'ties, due to policies decided at the Politibureau in Moscow. The majority of the members of this Politbureau were Jews, so you cannot exclude that many Ukrainians 10 years after the 'holodamor' took revenge on the Jews along with the German invaders, as indeed they were encouraged to do by the invading force. It is also well known that one of the purposes of the German offensive and a private motivation for many soldiers, where to finish of the un-Godly communist regime, and all the evil things that had come out of it, like the attempts of revolutions in Germany.

ILLUSTRATED SUNDAY HERALD, February 8, 1920

Zionism versus Bolshevism.

A Struggle for the Soul of the Jewish People

By the Rt. Hon. Winston S. Churchill.

“In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.

Terrorist Jews

There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews, it is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd) or of Krassin or Radek — all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.”

http://www.scribd.com/doc/200538/1920-Churchill-Zionism-versus-Bolshevism

 

AR

8:29 AM ET

May 18, 2009

Unfortunately, independent

Unfortunately, independent thinkers are a rarity these days.

 

ANYA KHAN

12:54 PM ET

May 16, 2009

Holocaust

I think it is up for each of us to remind people that The Holocaust happened and not censure the stupid who deny the truth.

While the suffering of gays, Catholics, Russians, etc etc was horrible, the plan was to kill all Jews everywhere. Catholics weren't going to be eradicated from the face of the Earth-Jews were. This should never be forgotten.

 

KENNETH SORENSEN

2:28 PM ET

May 16, 2009

No but Romas and gays

You have to compare it to other groups without a country or an army, who is under the control of the dictatorship in question, and whom the dictatorship doesn't like. In such a situation there is very little outside forces can do - particularly when these outside forces are in a titanic struggle, the outcome of which determines their own fate.

The allies had a great deal of trouble in regaining a foothold on the European mainland. They succeeded allright in invading Italy in 1943, but the Alps were in the way. What was needed to win the war, was an invasion across the Channel. And for that The British Isles were indispensable. If Britain had not remained free, it would have been impossible for The United States to make an invasion [provided it had the interest and had not made peace with The Third Reich]. It was difficult enough at a distance of 120 kilometers; it would of course have been impossible over the whole width of the Atlantic.

 

BORODATIY

10:55 PM ET

May 16, 2009

I am Jew, and I was born in

I am Jew, and I was born in the Soviet Union. Part of my family was killed during the Shoa for no reason other than being Jews. As much as I despise the revisionists, I have to admit - THEY HAVE THEIR RIGHTS TOO. Prosecuting somebody for what they SAID ( not what they DID ) is the exact copy of Stalin's policies. People have rights to express their opinions, period.

 

DMERRIN10000

2:52 PM ET

May 17, 2009

facebook and holocaust denial

I'm disinclined from questioning the wisdom of those who experienced the holocaust themselves, but isn't it also likely that allowing such speech its place will end up guaranteeing its undoing? If people read it, will they not either respond with a fact based, more powerful argument, or might they not just ignore it altogether? It seems that suppressing such speech will only encourage those who make it to take it further, whereas giving them their shot would show them just how little support such thinking has.

 

DEHNERD

3:31 PM ET

May 17, 2009

Freedom of speech not at issue here

Facebook, a for-profit social networking website, is not ruled by the constitution of the United States. It can censor what it wants, when it wants, to the ire or delight of its customers. Its job is to appeal to users and make money, just like Starbucks and McDonalds change their menu to the ire or delight of their customers. Take your arguments to the user feedback page of Facebook, or build your own social networking site.

 

PLAYIN POSSUM

8:36 PM ET

May 17, 2009

Denial... So what?

I'll go you one better... I don't give a sh*t. And I wished the jew propaganda machine would shut up about it. It's over and man will never move on until you drop it.

Having laws against denial is ridiculous, BTW...

Instead of p*ssing yourselves about this, why don't you discuss something relavent: The new holocaust perpetrated by the terrorists in Tel-Aviv against the rightful owners of Palestine?

 

AR

8:28 AM ET

May 18, 2009

Freedom of speech and thought

Freedom of speech and thought is a fundamental human right. There are plenty of groups on facebook denying other Genocides too, especially the Armenian Genocide, yet like other commentators said, it is their right to hold and express those thoughts.

 

Evgeny Morozov, originally from Belarus, is a visiting scholar at Stanford and a Schwartz Fellow at the New America Foundation.

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